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	<title>Comments on: Why Minimum Wage Represents Maximum Stupidity</title>
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		<title>By: Obama's Healthcare Plan: A Prescription for Disaster</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7126</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama's Healthcare Plan: A Prescription for Disaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7126</guid>
		<description>[...] 8% across-the-board pay hikes, they will have to offset these costs by reducing wages. However, for employees working at the minimum wage, the only way for employers to offset the costs would be through [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 8% across-the-board pay hikes, they will have to offset these costs by reducing wages. However, for employees working at the minimum wage, the only way for employers to offset the costs would be through [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Bessen</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7125</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Bessen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7125</guid>
		<description>Does anyone remember reading &quot;The Grapes of Wrath&quot;? If there is no minimum wage, then there will always be another group of hungrier people who will do the job for less. Eventually, the people doing the job for almost nothing, can&#039;t buy enough food to live. Meanwhile, the richest get richer on the backs of the poor. Remember Ford paying his workers enough so that they could afford to buy a Ford car?

I&#039;ve volunteered at lots of homeless shelters. What amazes me is when I recognize the clerk who works full-time for minimum wage at the local store. In high rent areas, a person can&#039;t meet their own food and shelter needs by working full-time at minimum wage. Does that seem right?

Peter Schiff then states that obviously people on minimum wage should not be having families until they are financially stable. (BTW, are you even pro-choice, Peter?) On minimum wage, if you can&#039;t pay for food and rent, can you afford condoms at 50 cents each? Can you afford a medical appointment for other birth control? No.

For a first hand look at life on minimum wage, I recommend Barbara Ehrenreich&#039;s book &quot;Nickled and Dimed: On (not) getting by in America&quot;. This highly qualified individual does under cover reporting and writes about her experiences living on minimum wage for a year.

From personal experience, I worked harder at McDonalds&#039;s as a teenager where &quot;if you have time to lean, you have time to clean&quot; then I did designing software for Wall Street.

Everyone deserves a living wage --at least $14/hour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone remember reading "The Grapes of Wrath"? If there is no minimum wage, then there will always be another group of hungrier people who will do the job for less. Eventually, the people doing the job for almost nothing, can't buy enough food to live. Meanwhile, the richest get richer on the backs of the poor. Remember Ford paying his workers enough so that they could afford to buy a Ford car?</p>
<p>I've volunteered at lots of homeless shelters. What amazes me is when I recognize the clerk who works full-time for minimum wage at the local store. In high rent areas, a person can't meet their own food and shelter needs by working full-time at minimum wage. Does that seem right?</p>
<p>Peter Schiff then states that obviously people on minimum wage should not be having families until they are financially stable. (BTW, are you even pro-choice, Peter?) On minimum wage, if you can't pay for food and rent, can you afford condoms at 50 cents each? Can you afford a medical appointment for other birth control? No.</p>
<p>For a first hand look at life on minimum wage, I recommend Barbara Ehrenreich's book "Nickled and Dimed: On (not) getting by in America". This highly qualified individual does under cover reporting and writes about her experiences living on minimum wage for a year.</p>
<p>From personal experience, I worked harder at McDonalds's as a teenager where "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean" then I did designing software for Wall Street.</p>
<p>Everyone deserves a living wage &#8211;at least $14/hour.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Wardell</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7106</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Wardell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7106</guid>
		<description>Health care insurance not an increase in minimun wage.

Why should taxpayers be subsidizing the cost of health care instead of the employer?

Any job without health care insurance is not worth having is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Health care insurance not an increase in minimun wage.</p>
<p>Why should taxpayers be subsidizing the cost of health care instead of the employer?</p>
<p>Any job without health care insurance is not worth having is it?</p>
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		<title>By: Shah</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7104</link>
		<dc:creator>Shah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7104</guid>
		<description>How about ALL the politicians taking a pay cut along with these warped execs who think laying people off while handing themselves bonuses with no improvement in company productivity.  The relevant compensation vs. productivity is so unbalanced it&#039;s no wonder that people can&#039;t make ends meet.  I mean seriously, how many big wigs have given themselves bonuses at the expense of their employees?  It&#039;s absolutely appalling!!!  As a business owner, I expect to have to pay a fare wage for the work being performed.

On a related note, I fully understand that many companies were overstaffed anyway and hopefully those who really made a difference were retained.

Lastly, isn&#039;t it less expensive to have someone work OT than hiring another person?  Do more with less, sure but make sure you are setting realistic goals!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about ALL the politicians taking a pay cut along with these warped execs who think laying people off while handing themselves bonuses with no improvement in company productivity.  The relevant compensation vs. productivity is so unbalanced it's no wonder that people can't make ends meet.  I mean seriously, how many big wigs have given themselves bonuses at the expense of their employees?  It's absolutely appalling!!!  As a business owner, I expect to have to pay a fare wage for the work being performed.</p>
<p>On a related note, I fully understand that many companies were overstaffed anyway and hopefully those who really made a difference were retained.</p>
<p>Lastly, isn't it less expensive to have someone work OT than hiring another person?  Do more with less, sure but make sure you are setting realistic goals!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard E. Lipinski</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7105</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard E. Lipinski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7105</guid>
		<description>Peter I am sure YOU can answer this question. Do people or companies that generate profits have to hurt other people by doing so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter I am sure YOU can answer this question. Do people or companies that generate profits have to hurt other people by doing so?</p>
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		<title>By: Lori</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7107</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7107</guid>
		<description>Mr. Johnson and the others who agree with him...wake up.  I&#039;ll take your word that you are a different sort of business owner -- there are always a few people who are different -- but the vast (vast!) majority of businesses are run the way Mr. Schiff describes.  This is the way the world works.  It&#039;s human nature...human nature hasn&#039;t changed since the beginning of time, and it&#039;s not going to change now.  You can scream, &quot;Why can&#039;t we all be kinder, more compassionate people?&quot; until you&#039;re blue in the face, but it&#039;s not going to make a difference.  Until our politicians face the truth and start lawmaking with the real world in mind (rather than some utopian fantasyland), we are all screwed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Johnson and the others who agree with him&#8230;wake up.  I'll take your word that you are a different sort of business owner &#8212; there are always a few people who are different &#8212; but the vast (vast!) majority of businesses are run the way Mr. Schiff describes.  This is the way the world works.  It's human nature&#8230;human nature hasn't changed since the beginning of time, and it's not going to change now.  You can scream, "Why can't we all be kinder, more compassionate people?" until you're blue in the face, but it's not going to make a difference.  Until our politicians face the truth and start lawmaking with the real world in mind (rather than some utopian fantasyland), we are all screwed.</p>
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		<title>By: Gazza</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7110</link>
		<dc:creator>Gazza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7110</guid>
		<description>You have to ask yourself about your peers. (check out the profile link).  there are two problems around most of the world, you have some people earning stupendious amounts, and then those stuggling to earn a decent modest living nothing more just enough so they are happy.  Now ask how much the cleaners in your company are getting paid. go and do that now, and compare that to the amount you are getting paid.  See the problem.  Now how easy is it to fix considering the amount you would need to shift in wage balance to give them a decent it is not that hard.  The huge problem is world wide that there are too many greedy people at the top of their company who do not share out the company earnings properly and only worry about themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to ask yourself about your peers. (check out the profile link).  there are two problems around most of the world, you have some people earning stupendious amounts, and then those stuggling to earn a decent modest living nothing more just enough so they are happy.  Now ask how much the cleaners in your company are getting paid. go and do that now, and compare that to the amount you are getting paid.  See the problem.  Now how easy is it to fix considering the amount you would need to shift in wage balance to give them a decent it is not that hard.  The huge problem is world wide that there are too many greedy people at the top of their company who do not share out the company earnings properly and only worry about themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7109</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7109</guid>
		<description>The real fun begins when deflation starts hitting and turns that $7.25 an hour into $72.50 an hour in today&#039;s terms, then $362.50/hour, then $725/hour, then $3625/hour in today&#039;s terms, as surviving dollars buy 10, 50, 100, or 500 times as much as today.  The minimum wage law, started with the explicitly stated goal in its minutes of &quot;keeping blacks from taking the jobs of whites&quot; back in 1930, if not abolished or adjusted for deflation, will make it prohibitively expensive to hire ANYBODY by the time deflation is over.  A deflationary depression should wipe out the insanity (among other things).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real fun begins when deflation starts hitting and turns that $7.25 an hour into $72.50 an hour in today's terms, then $362.50/hour, then $725/hour, then $3625/hour in today's terms, as surviving dollars buy 10, 50, 100, or 500 times as much as today.  The minimum wage law, started with the explicitly stated goal in its minutes of "keeping blacks from taking the jobs of whites" back in 1930, if not abolished or adjusted for deflation, will make it prohibitively expensive to hire ANYBODY by the time deflation is over.  A deflationary depression should wipe out the insanity (among other things).</p>
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		<title>By: Bruno Vartuli</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7119</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruno Vartuli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7119</guid>
		<description>minum wages are stupid in a democracy system. We can be comunist society or democrasy. we can&#039;t be both at the same time. In the old days people lived in rural area earned their living from working their land. Now governments and employers are responsable for people living. Sorry, I mean tax payers have to support people living? But, hang on! people that haven&#039;t have to live at the expences of people that have! One way or another. Safety fences and high sophisticated security would not promote pacific living.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>minum wages are stupid in a democracy system. We can be comunist society or democrasy. we can't be both at the same time. In the old days people lived in rural area earned their living from working their land. Now governments and employers are responsable for people living. Sorry, I mean tax payers have to support people living? But, hang on! people that haven't have to live at the expences of people that have! One way or another. Safety fences and high sophisticated security would not promote pacific living.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Fishgrab</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7117</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Fishgrab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7117</guid>
		<description>A minimum wage hike is only a temporary boost for the minimum wage earner.  The increase causes an immediate increease in take home pay, but it also produces an increase in the employer&#039;s labor cost, both in increased wages, and in increased payroll taxes.  A one dollar increase in wages increases expenses by $1.25 to $1.50, That makes the cost of their products increase, which is passed along to the consumer.  The increased cost of materials requires an additional price increase.  The benefit of the minimum wage increase is only felt until the adjustments to prices are made.  Ultimately, minimum wage is the same percentage as it originally was, and the low man is in exactly the same position as before.

Most owners base their earnings on a percentage of cost, and at any point, they experience losses only if the increases reduce sales.  Workers in in between jobs come out as the biggest losers, as the cost increases hit them before their wages increase.  They must have a wage increase of the same percentage to maintain the same standard.

There is nothing in a minimum wage increase to reduce the gap between the highest and lowest paid.  It only occurs if ownership is willing to settle for less profit.  Many are not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A minimum wage hike is only a temporary boost for the minimum wage earner.  The increase causes an immediate increease in take home pay, but it also produces an increase in the employer's labor cost, both in increased wages, and in increased payroll taxes.  A one dollar increase in wages increases expenses by $1.25 to $1.50, That makes the cost of their products increase, which is passed along to the consumer.  The increased cost of materials requires an additional price increase.  The benefit of the minimum wage increase is only felt until the adjustments to prices are made.  Ultimately, minimum wage is the same percentage as it originally was, and the low man is in exactly the same position as before.</p>
<p>Most owners base their earnings on a percentage of cost, and at any point, they experience losses only if the increases reduce sales.  Workers in in between jobs come out as the biggest losers, as the cost increases hit them before their wages increase.  They must have a wage increase of the same percentage to maintain the same standard.</p>
<p>There is nothing in a minimum wage increase to reduce the gap between the highest and lowest paid.  It only occurs if ownership is willing to settle for less profit.  Many are not.</p>
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		<title>By: John Boyer</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7112</link>
		<dc:creator>John Boyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7112</guid>
		<description>Mr. John W. Johnson,

  You seem like a man of compassion.
  If more employers had your attitude it would help us all. But I still think that by expanding the minimum wage we add hardship to the whole economy -- if we can&#039;t afford things now, how can we afford them if products and services are much higher. If minimum wage goes up probably your employee&#039;s rents will go up, also. So why not keep the minimum wage where it is for now, and employers like you CAN pay more.  Of course, minimum wage is really just one of the &quot;weeds&quot; of our society. The root of the problem is within the heart of man, selfishness and greed, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. John W. Johnson,</p>
<p>  You seem like a man of compassion.<br />
  If more employers had your attitude it would help us all. But I still think that by expanding the minimum wage we add hardship to the whole economy &#8212; if we can't afford things now, how can we afford them if products and services are much higher. If minimum wage goes up probably your employee's rents will go up, also. So why not keep the minimum wage where it is for now, and employers like you CAN pay more.  Of course, minimum wage is really just one of the "weeds" of our society. The root of the problem is within the heart of man, selfishness and greed, no?</p>
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		<title>By: john w johnson</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7111</link>
		<dc:creator>john w johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7111</guid>
		<description>Peter, I feel sorry for you. You are so stuck in a purely linear mode of thinking. The divide between the wealthy and the common laborer have been so severly skewed in the last decade(s) that we can&#039;t see straight.
I own a small company, and i don&#039;t think like you. Another point of view, is that I&#039;m making plenty to get by. And my workers are struggling to pay the rent. I don&#039;t care if my coffers have a little less money. I like the idea that more of us can get up in the morning and feel good about going to work.
Your model is a part of the problem. It&#039;s all about the bottom line. And it&#039;s killing us all.
Until we start realizing some age old principles, ie, we are all connected, your patriarchal attitude will continue to cause pain and sufffering.
And living in your gated community with your security systems alienates you from the rest of the world. It keeps you in the mindset of us against them. Of having to protect yourself from &quot;those people&quot; who want what you have.
My prayers go out to you. And for all of us.
							Should say excellent post. Can&#039;t wait to reading the next one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, I feel sorry for you. You are so stuck in a purely linear mode of thinking. The divide between the wealthy and the common laborer have been so severly skewed in the last decade(s) that we can't see straight.<br />
I own a small company, and i don't think like you. Another point of view, is that I'm making plenty to get by. And my workers are struggling to pay the rent. I don't care if my coffers have a little less money. I like the idea that more of us can get up in the morning and feel good about going to work.<br />
Your model is a part of the problem. It's all about the bottom line. And it's killing us all.<br />
Until we start realizing some age old principles, ie, we are all connected, your patriarchal attitude will continue to cause pain and sufffering.<br />
And living in your gated community with your security systems alienates you from the rest of the world. It keeps you in the mindset of us against them. Of having to protect yourself from "those people" who want what you have.<br />
My prayers go out to you. And for all of us.<br />
							Should say excellent post. Can't wait to reading the next one!</p>
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		<title>By: Cornelius</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7123</link>
		<dc:creator>Cornelius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7123</guid>
		<description>Peter you&#039;re conveniently hidding the thruth.
What about the limitless greed of corporations&#039; CEOs ? What about Wall Street corruption ? What about the widening gap between haves and have nots ? If all our super rich and super wealthy would agree to make just a few less $$$ Millions a year (JUST A FEW !!) then our economy and our society would be in a much better shape...
God bless....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter you're conveniently hidding the thruth.<br />
What about the limitless greed of corporations' CEOs ? What about Wall Street corruption ? What about the widening gap between haves and have nots ? If all our super rich and super wealthy would agree to make just a few less $$$ Millions a year (JUST A FEW !!) then our economy and our society would be in a much better shape&#8230;<br />
God bless&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Petyo</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7122</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Petyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7122</guid>
		<description>I read both comments above about the minimum wage issue. I would like to point out that when I was younger I wanted to learn how to be a Bar Tender. So I applied and offered my services to learn and work for free. Yes you read it right I worked for free just to learn the trade. Needless to say I learned to tend bar and the opportunity arose for me to move into the position of getting paid. I know that everyone is not in the possition of working for free, but if you want something bad enough you will do what it takes to get that position.
I read the article about minimum wage and I would have to agree. We need to get the Government off of are backs and out of our lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read both comments above about the minimum wage issue. I would like to point out that when I was younger I wanted to learn how to be a Bar Tender. So I applied and offered my services to learn and work for free. Yes you read it right I worked for free just to learn the trade. Needless to say I learned to tend bar and the opportunity arose for me to move into the position of getting paid. I know that everyone is not in the possition of working for free, but if you want something bad enough you will do what it takes to get that position.<br />
I read the article about minimum wage and I would have to agree. We need to get the Government off of are backs and out of our lives.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Howland</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7121</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Howland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7121</guid>
		<description>While I&#039;m a client of his firm, and normally concur with Mr. Schiff, I think here, he&#039;s being a bit too cold.

     A perfect society does not exist in America at the moment, and there is painfully little capitalism allowed by our current government.   Under such circumstances, Labor Unions are a tolerable necessary evil.  And, the combination of a Labor Union, and a Big Business is not necessarily a totally lost cause.

    It&#039;s a question of proportion.... The big money-center banks are in the process of robbing the wealth of all the little people, and not-so-little people who are unaware of what is transpiring.  Paying 20-30% more for what is typically &#039;higher-quality labor&#039; does not put American Manufacturers at so much of a disadvantage as the many other government mandated restraints on them.

    I&#039;m not taking it too much out - of - context when I quote the Biblical Admonition, &quot;The worker is worthy of his Wages&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I'm a client of his firm, and normally concur with Mr. Schiff, I think here, he's being a bit too cold.</p>
<p>     A perfect society does not exist in America at the moment, and there is painfully little capitalism allowed by our current government.   Under such circumstances, Labor Unions are a tolerable necessary evil.  And, the combination of a Labor Union, and a Big Business is not necessarily a totally lost cause.</p>
<p>    It's a question of proportion&#8230;. The big money-center banks are in the process of robbing the wealth of all the little people, and not-so-little people who are unaware of what is transpiring.  Paying 20-30% more for what is typically 'higher-quality labor' does not put American Manufacturers at so much of a disadvantage as the many other government mandated restraints on them.</p>
<p>    I'm not taking it too much out &#8211; of &#8211; context when I quote the Biblical Admonition, "The worker is worthy of his Wages".</p>
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		<title>By: willieR.</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7120</link>
		<dc:creator>willieR.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7120</guid>
		<description>Thank you#2!!....and to add just a bit...remember...there are a LOT MORE of &#039;them&#039;...then there are the well to do...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you#2!!&#8230;.and to add just a bit&#8230;remember&#8230;there are a LOT MORE of 'them'&#8230;then there are the well to do&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie Wright</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7118</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7118</guid>
		<description>Peter is not saying that is the right way to go, but he is pointing out the reality of what happens.  It would be great if all owners of big businesses thought that way, but unfortunately most do not know their workers, and don&#039;t think like them.  And, also, they think about keeping costs down (which also may mean lower costs for everyone else).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter is not saying that is the right way to go, but he is pointing out the reality of what happens.  It would be great if all owners of big businesses thought that way, but unfortunately most do not know their workers, and don't think like them.  And, also, they think about keeping costs down (which also may mean lower costs for everyone else).</p>
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		<title>By: Mary L</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7116</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7116</guid>
		<description>I agree with Mr. Johnson.  Far too many people have no idea what it takes to do most of the necessary jobs out there.

Too many have never come up through the ranks.  It used to be a mark of pride for the owner or president of a company to make his kids work in the company starting at the bottom - to not only learn the business from the bottom up, but to learn what it takes to actually do those jobs.

It also used to be a BAD THING when a company laid off workers.  Everyone knew it meant that there were going to be FEWER people able to SPEND money.  A company&#039;s stock went DOWN as a consequence.  This was before the corporate machine convinced our so-called leaders to allow them to outsource our manufacturing base to cheap foreign labor at the expense of our national security and economic health.  Of course, that was before most people thought they could live on credit forever.  Now we have virtually no industrial base that brings $ in.  Now we have a service based country and can&#039;t pay the nation&#039;s bills!  Surprise, surprise!

I&#039;ve been working since I was 16.  I learned early on how to budget AND say no to myself when I could get by without buying that new toy in the window.  I&#039;m financially in good shape as a result.  Unfortunately, now we&#039;re all screwed because of a refusal by far too many to share some of the wealth, not to mention the excessive greed that allowed Madoff to make his killing.

We need people who ask the tough questions and make sure we get good solid logical answers.  That&#039;s called discipline and due diligence.  What we have been lacking in the public and private sectors is exactly that.  Too many who tried to simply do their jobs were told not to upset the apple cart.  Maybe now that so many haves - have lost so very much, our society will start remember that greed is NOT good.  Far too many people think they are entitled to far too much.

As for protectionism, traineeinvestor, the U.S. has probably been the only truly free market.  You have obviously failed to notice that every other country in the world is and has been practicing protectionism at the expense of the U.S. for the last 20+ years.  Can you say NAFTA?  I can still hear that sucking sound.  Don&#039;t you hear it, especially now?  When too large a majority of your own people can&#039;t make what is considered a living wage, then YOUR SOCIETY IS IN IT DEEP.  It&#039;s up to the thoughtful, civilized adults in any society to teach the kids to share.  Where are the adults?

Just how much do you have to make that you actually begrudge anyone $7.25 an hour?  Could you live on that even for a month?  I&#039;d have a lot of trouble doing it and I believe in living life reasonably.

I&#039;m not being politically correct here.  I&#039;m being a rational adult who understands that we sink or swim together.  When your neighbors make a good living - your property values go up.  When your neighbors can&#039;t make a decent living - property values go down.  Do you really want to move out of the neighborhood?  Try living in China.  Stop expecting all of the perks of living in an established civilized country without paying the price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Mr. Johnson.  Far too many people have no idea what it takes to do most of the necessary jobs out there.</p>
<p>Too many have never come up through the ranks.  It used to be a mark of pride for the owner or president of a company to make his kids work in the company starting at the bottom &#8211; to not only learn the business from the bottom up, but to learn what it takes to actually do those jobs.</p>
<p>It also used to be a BAD THING when a company laid off workers.  Everyone knew it meant that there were going to be FEWER people able to SPEND money.  A company's stock went DOWN as a consequence.  This was before the corporate machine convinced our so-called leaders to allow them to outsource our manufacturing base to cheap foreign labor at the expense of our national security and economic health.  Of course, that was before most people thought they could live on credit forever.  Now we have virtually no industrial base that brings $ in.  Now we have a service based country and can't pay the nation's bills!  Surprise, surprise!</p>
<p>I've been working since I was 16.  I learned early on how to budget AND say no to myself when I could get by without buying that new toy in the window.  I'm financially in good shape as a result.  Unfortunately, now we're all screwed because of a refusal by far too many to share some of the wealth, not to mention the excessive greed that allowed Madoff to make his killing.</p>
<p>We need people who ask the tough questions and make sure we get good solid logical answers.  That's called discipline and due diligence.  What we have been lacking in the public and private sectors is exactly that.  Too many who tried to simply do their jobs were told not to upset the apple cart.  Maybe now that so many haves &#8211; have lost so very much, our society will start remember that greed is NOT good.  Far too many people think they are entitled to far too much.</p>
<p>As for protectionism, traineeinvestor, the U.S. has probably been the only truly free market.  You have obviously failed to notice that every other country in the world is and has been practicing protectionism at the expense of the U.S. for the last 20+ years.  Can you say NAFTA?  I can still hear that sucking sound.  Don't you hear it, especially now?  When too large a majority of your own people can't make what is considered a living wage, then YOUR SOCIETY IS IN IT DEEP.  It's up to the thoughtful, civilized adults in any society to teach the kids to share.  Where are the adults?</p>
<p>Just how much do you have to make that you actually begrudge anyone $7.25 an hour?  Could you live on that even for a month?  I'd have a lot of trouble doing it and I believe in living life reasonably.</p>
<p>I'm not being politically correct here.  I'm being a rational adult who understands that we sink or swim together.  When your neighbors make a good living &#8211; your property values go up.  When your neighbors can't make a decent living &#8211; property values go down.  Do you really want to move out of the neighborhood?  Try living in China.  Stop expecting all of the perks of living in an established civilized country without paying the price.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudy</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7115</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7115</guid>
		<description>The jobs you speak of were lost not because of the minimum wage, but because of technology. And I don&#039;t know of any &quot;paperboys&quot; that exist anymore, let alone earning minimum wage. These are all adults with autos who do this to supplement their income. As for the pump jockeys, those &quot;mechanics&quot; are gone also. With automobiles being computerized, you&#039;re not going to learn by hanging out with a mechanic. I agree with Mr. Johnson that you are out of touch. And getting estimates for a clogged drain is wise. But the lowest price is not always the best option. And doing it yourself could cost you even more if you don&#039;t know what you&#039;re doing. And people don&#039;t need an usher in a theater. These are all poor examples. Bottom line is, the bottom line is what matters. If employers can get one person to do 3 peoples jobs, then they will let 2 people go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The jobs you speak of were lost not because of the minimum wage, but because of technology. And I don't know of any "paperboys" that exist anymore, let alone earning minimum wage. These are all adults with autos who do this to supplement their income. As for the pump jockeys, those "mechanics" are gone also. With automobiles being computerized, you're not going to learn by hanging out with a mechanic. I agree with Mr. Johnson that you are out of touch. And getting estimates for a clogged drain is wise. But the lowest price is not always the best option. And doing it yourself could cost you even more if you don't know what you're doing. And people don't need an usher in a theater. These are all poor examples. Bottom line is, the bottom line is what matters. If employers can get one person to do 3 peoples jobs, then they will let 2 people go.</p>
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		<title>By: John Boyer</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7114</link>
		<dc:creator>John Boyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7114</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand why the politicians can&#039;t see why increasing minimum wage is not a good idea.  I call this &quot;idiotic compassion&quot;.
     Also, as the increased minimum wage forces the cost of goods and services higher it makes it EVEN HARDER for the person on minimum wage to buy goods and services, -- a bigger problem for them than for someone who is more affluent. The person on minimum wage gets a little bit more money but he has a &quot;hundred&quot; places where he has to pay more. The little extra he gets is quickly &quot;gobbled up&quot;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't understand why the politicians can't see why increasing minimum wage is not a good idea.  I call this "idiotic compassion".<br />
     Also, as the increased minimum wage forces the cost of goods and services higher it makes it EVEN HARDER for the person on minimum wage to buy goods and services, &#8212; a bigger problem for them than for someone who is more affluent. The person on minimum wage gets a little bit more money but he has a "hundred" places where he has to pay more. The little extra he gets is quickly "gobbled up"!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Mannstein</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7113</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Mannstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7113</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t we apply this same logic to incompetent CEOs and other fat cats and not give them obscene bonuses and perks even as they destroy share holder value ultimately driving the companies they are supposed to manage into Chapter 11. Why not pay workers even less so that they cannot afford to put food on the table for their families. Industries will go out of business for a lack of customers which ought to bring back the economy big time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don't we apply this same logic to incompetent CEOs and other fat cats and not give them obscene bonuses and perks even as they destroy share holder value ultimately driving the companies they are supposed to manage into Chapter 11. Why not pay workers even less so that they cannot afford to put food on the table for their families. Industries will go out of business for a lack of customers which ought to bring back the economy big time!</p>
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		<title>By: john w johnson</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7108</link>
		<dc:creator>john w johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7108</guid>
		<description>Peter, I feel sorry for you. You are so stuck in a purely linear mode of thinking. The divide between the wealthy and the common laborer have been so severly skewed in the last decade(s) that we can&#039;t see straight.
I own a small company, and i don&#039;t think like you. Another point of view, is that I&#039;m making plenty to get by. And my workers are struggling to pay the rent. I don&#039;t care if my coffers have a little less money. I like the idea that more of us can get up in the morning and feel good about going to work.
Your model is a part of the problem. It&#039;s all about the bottom line. And it&#039;s killing us all.
Until we start realizing some age old principles, ie, we are all connected, your patriarchal attitude will continue to cause pain and sufffering.
And living in your gated community with your security systems alienates you from the rest of the world. It keeps you in the mindset of us against them. Of having to protect yourself from &quot;those people&quot; who want what you have.
My prayers go out to you. And for all of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, I feel sorry for you. You are so stuck in a purely linear mode of thinking. The divide between the wealthy and the common laborer have been so severly skewed in the last decade(s) that we can't see straight.<br />
I own a small company, and i don't think like you. Another point of view, is that I'm making plenty to get by. And my workers are struggling to pay the rent. I don't care if my coffers have a little less money. I like the idea that more of us can get up in the morning and feel good about going to work.<br />
Your model is a part of the problem. It's all about the bottom line. And it's killing us all.<br />
Until we start realizing some age old principles, ie, we are all connected, your patriarchal attitude will continue to cause pain and sufffering.<br />
And living in your gated community with your security systems alienates you from the rest of the world. It keeps you in the mindset of us against them. Of having to protect yourself from "those people" who want what you have.<br />
My prayers go out to you. And for all of us.</p>
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		<title>By: traineeinvestor</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/07/13/minimum-wage/comment-page-1/#comment-7124</link>
		<dc:creator>traineeinvestor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=8032#comment-7124</guid>
		<description>Can you spell &quot;outsourcing&quot;?

In an envronment where jobs are scarce and unemployment rising, making it more expensive to hire employees is, as you say, an demonstration of &quot;maximum stupidity&quot;.

Next up....let&#039;s have more protectionism, higher taxes and .... oh, wait....those are being implemented already.  Lenin would be giving these clowns a standing ovation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you spell "outsourcing"?</p>
<p>In an envronment where jobs are scarce and unemployment rising, making it more expensive to hire employees is, as you say, an demonstration of "maximum stupidity".</p>
<p>Next up&#8230;.let's have more protectionism, higher taxes and &#8230;. oh, wait&#8230;.those are being implemented already.  Lenin would be giving these clowns a standing ovation.</p>
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