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	<title>Comments on: The Technology That Will Replace 148 Billion Barrels of Oil</title>
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	<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/</link>
	<description>Global Investment News</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:12:13 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/comment-page-1/#comment-15216</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=9571#comment-15216</guid>
		<description>The author left out the most important point of all. To charge a battery you need electric power. In fact, you need a lot of electric power. If you plan to recharge your car&#039;s battery overnight you will need to beef up your wiring and the electric utility will have to beef up all the lines between your house and the new electric generating plant that they have to build to supply this power. This generating plant will burn fossil fuel unless you want to pay something like 18 cents a kilowatt hour for all of your electricity. The electric utilities have been afraid of electric cars for years because of the huge increase in capacity that they will require. In fact there is no reason to believe that electric cars will make any difference at all to the fossil fuel requirements. They will simply move it from the car to the generating plant.

The problem is most acute in places like California, where it takes forever to get permits to build either a plant to generate electricity or a power line to bring it in from outside. Thirty-five years ago the American Society of Civil Engineers stated that the cost of getting approval for a new power construction project in an urban area in California was more than the cost of construction and I doubt that the permit process is any easier now. The required lead time then was five years. So if you can&#039;t build a power plant, you can&#039;t bring in fuel from outside, and you can&#039;t build powerlines to bring power in from outside you are going to have a permanent brownout and then nobody will have enough power to charge their cars.

An electric car suffers from a lot of efficiency problems. First of all, the plant that generates the electricity can get efficiency of somewhere near 25%. Figure on a loss of 2% for the step-up transformer at the generating plant. Figure another 8% for the loss in the transmission line and stepdown transformers. This means that you now have 25% minus 10% of that means 22.5%. Next consider the recharging station. You will need at least 10 kilowatts to run a vehicle in the city. If you plan on using it for an hour to work and an hour back you need 20 kilowatt hours. If you plug into your normal wall outlet at 120 volts times 15 amps this gives you 1800 watts so 20 kilowatt hours would take 11 hours if efficiency of battery and charger are 100%. If they are 50%, which is still a high estimate, it would take you 22 hours to recharge. This means that you need to use wiring similar to that for an electric stove to recharge in a reasonable time. 

In summary, electric cars do nothing to help the overall energy problem, they simply move it from one place to another. If you burn fossil fuel at a generating plant you will get better efficiency than if you burn it directly in the car but you have to take the electrical losses into account. The only advantage to utilities would be that electric cars would be recharged overnight when other electric power demand is low.

Several years ago a company called Rosen Motors developed a hybrid car that used a gas turbine (only one moving part) and used a flywheel to store energy. They stated that the total pollution caused by operating their vehicle was less than the pollution caused by burning fossil fuel in an electric generating plant if you took into account the losses in the electrical distribution system and the battery. At that time efficiency in batteries was in the neighborhood of 50%. I note that none of the proponents of modern lithium batteries produce figures showing efficiency of their products. Many of them do produce figures showing kilowatt-hours per pound but they are very shy about saying how much power you can actually take out of the battery compared to the power that goes into the charging device.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author left out the most important point of all. To charge a battery you need electric power. In fact, you need a lot of electric power. If you plan to recharge your car&#8217;s battery overnight you will need to beef up your wiring and the electric utility will have to beef up all the lines between your house and the new electric generating plant that they have to build to supply this power. This generating plant will burn fossil fuel unless you want to pay something like 18 cents a kilowatt hour for all of your electricity. The electric utilities have been afraid of electric cars for years because of the huge increase in capacity that they will require. In fact there is no reason to believe that electric cars will make any difference at all to the fossil fuel requirements. They will simply move it from the car to the generating plant.</p>
<p>The problem is most acute in places like California, where it takes forever to get permits to build either a plant to generate electricity or a power line to bring it in from outside. Thirty-five years ago the American Society of Civil Engineers stated that the cost of getting approval for a new power construction project in an urban area in California was more than the cost of construction and I doubt that the permit process is any easier now. The required lead time then was five years. So if you can&#8217;t build a power plant, you can&#8217;t bring in fuel from outside, and you can&#8217;t build powerlines to bring power in from outside you are going to have a permanent brownout and then nobody will have enough power to charge their cars.</p>
<p>An electric car suffers from a lot of efficiency problems. First of all, the plant that generates the electricity can get efficiency of somewhere near 25%. Figure on a loss of 2% for the step-up transformer at the generating plant. Figure another 8% for the loss in the transmission line and stepdown transformers. This means that you now have 25% minus 10% of that means 22.5%. Next consider the recharging station. You will need at least 10 kilowatts to run a vehicle in the city. If you plan on using it for an hour to work and an hour back you need 20 kilowatt hours. If you plug into your normal wall outlet at 120 volts times 15 amps this gives you 1800 watts so 20 kilowatt hours would take 11 hours if efficiency of battery and charger are 100%. If they are 50%, which is still a high estimate, it would take you 22 hours to recharge. This means that you need to use wiring similar to that for an electric stove to recharge in a reasonable time. </p>
<p>In summary, electric cars do nothing to help the overall energy problem, they simply move it from one place to another. If you burn fossil fuel at a generating plant you will get better efficiency than if you burn it directly in the car but you have to take the electrical losses into account. The only advantage to utilities would be that electric cars would be recharged overnight when other electric power demand is low.</p>
<p>Several years ago a company called Rosen Motors developed a hybrid car that used a gas turbine (only one moving part) and used a flywheel to store energy. They stated that the total pollution caused by operating their vehicle was less than the pollution caused by burning fossil fuel in an electric generating plant if you took into account the losses in the electrical distribution system and the battery. At that time efficiency in batteries was in the neighborhood of 50%. I note that none of the proponents of modern lithium batteries produce figures showing efficiency of their products. Many of them do produce figures showing kilowatt-hours per pound but they are very shy about saying how much power you can actually take out of the battery compared to the power that goes into the charging device.</p>
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		<title>By: DAVID THIBODEUX</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/comment-page-1/#comment-14465</link>
		<dc:creator>DAVID THIBODEUX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=9571#comment-14465</guid>
		<description>like every succesful bussiness model   diversify . we need all types of energy used  , more nuclear , coal, battery, solar , geo thermal  is amazing i think a major breakthrough is coming in this energy source, where water is pumped down into earth and turned to steam and then when comes up back though pipe it turns a turbine  unlumited supply  of heat, anyway our country just lets other countries just eclipse us because they are ambitious and we are full of political wrangling and our country will go down unless action is taken . just like china is doing we need to do the same if this country was run more like a bussiness we would be fine , it should be a prerequisite to own a succesful business in order to hold any kind of office much less the presidency , there are more requirements to buy a house than to be president!!!
 and the world laughs as   our democracy allows for corruption  and stifles our needs like energy all they have to do to influence our country is lobby us and that is legal bribery  our democracy allows for this , in the real world this is called conflict of interest and we would be fired from any corparation  for this but not the people who are running the biggest bussiness in the world our country!!!!!!!!   and  i am sad to see and watch it slowly go down the drain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>like every succesful bussiness model   diversify . we need all types of energy used  , more nuclear , coal, battery, solar , geo thermal  is amazing i think a major breakthrough is coming in this energy source, where water is pumped down into earth and turned to steam and then when comes up back though pipe it turns a turbine  unlumited supply  of heat, anyway our country just lets other countries just eclipse us because they are ambitious and we are full of political wrangling and our country will go down unless action is taken . just like china is doing we need to do the same if this country was run more like a bussiness we would be fine , it should be a prerequisite to own a succesful business in order to hold any kind of office much less the presidency , there are more requirements to buy a house than to be president!!!<br />
 and the world laughs as   our democracy allows for corruption  and stifles our needs like energy all they have to do to influence our country is lobby us and that is legal bribery  our democracy allows for this , in the real world this is called conflict of interest and we would be fired from any corparation  for this but not the people who are running the biggest bussiness in the world our country!!!!!!!!   and  i am sad to see and watch it slowly go down the drain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Thorsten Koster</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/comment-page-1/#comment-14348</link>
		<dc:creator>Thorsten Koster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=9571#comment-14348</guid>
		<description>I for myself believe very much in electrical energy for cars. I am a shareholder of a small company named Li-ion Motors (LMCO) trading right now at around between 75 and 85 cts. per share. I believe this company has lots going for it. They just delivered cars to the Netherlands and Abu Dabi. Those cars are solely running on Lithium power.

For the cities a car like that is perfect. I do believe that the company has huge potential. And it is american made.
I believe in the furture of companies like this one in general but that it takes on Oil on a short term iI seriously doubt. In the future, for sure but people have to change their minds and adjust their way of thinking first before anthing significant can take place. 

In Europe we already have the Government to help with developing cars with electrical power
and it is beginning to become more and more interesting. In Italy they have already around 5000 Fiat 500 running on just electrical power.

Be it as it may. There is still a long way to go.

P.S. pardon my typos, since my first language is german. Sorry again and have a pleasant day everybody

TK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I for myself believe very much in electrical energy for cars. I am a shareholder of a small company named Li-ion Motors (LMCO) trading right now at around between 75 and 85 cts. per share. I believe this company has lots going for it. They just delivered cars to the Netherlands and Abu Dabi. Those cars are solely running on Lithium power.</p>
<p>For the cities a car like that is perfect. I do believe that the company has huge potential. And it is american made.<br />
I believe in the furture of companies like this one in general but that it takes on Oil on a short term iI seriously doubt. In the future, for sure but people have to change their minds and adjust their way of thinking first before anthing significant can take place. </p>
<p>In Europe we already have the Government to help with developing cars with electrical power<br />
and it is beginning to become more and more interesting. In Italy they have already around 5000 Fiat 500 running on just electrical power.</p>
<p>Be it as it may. There is still a long way to go.</p>
<p>P.S. pardon my typos, since my first language is german. Sorry again and have a pleasant day everybody</p>
<p>TK</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/comment-page-1/#comment-13895</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 01:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=9571#comment-13895</guid>
		<description>I continue to be amazed at the lack of rational thinking here co2 is what plants use during photosynthesis at the time of the energy exchange the carbon atom is split off and the byproduct that is released is o2, oxygen, which is what we require to breath, the conclusion here is that plants are a natural scrubber for the emmisions that everyone was so up in arms about the question is what are you medlesome arrogant self important job killing global proverty expansionists going to come up with to clean all the real environmental problems and poisons your movement has created. you are not nearly as smart and compassionate as you fancy yourself as, in the coming months there will be enough additional evidence come to light over the climate change fiasco that even al gore will have to go into hiding hopefully he will excuse himself from the country. its too bad the russians had to be the ones to expose it but far be it from me to deny credit where its due, i have cussed them much but for this one they deserve thanks oil has done more to promote freedom than anything else on earth it replaced the slaves and the rest is history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I continue to be amazed at the lack of rational thinking here co2 is what plants use during photosynthesis at the time of the energy exchange the carbon atom is split off and the byproduct that is released is o2, oxygen, which is what we require to breath, the conclusion here is that plants are a natural scrubber for the emmisions that everyone was so up in arms about the question is what are you medlesome arrogant self important job killing global proverty expansionists going to come up with to clean all the real environmental problems and poisons your movement has created. you are not nearly as smart and compassionate as you fancy yourself as, in the coming months there will be enough additional evidence come to light over the climate change fiasco that even al gore will have to go into hiding hopefully he will excuse himself from the country. its too bad the russians had to be the ones to expose it but far be it from me to deny credit where its due, i have cussed them much but for this one they deserve thanks oil has done more to promote freedom than anything else on earth it replaced the slaves and the rest is history.</p>
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		<title>By: Jose Alberto Sanchis</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/comment-page-1/#comment-13739</link>
		<dc:creator>Jose Alberto Sanchis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=9571#comment-13739</guid>
		<description>Un fuerte abrazo desde Washington Horacio. Me ha gustado mucho tu articulo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Un fuerte abrazo desde Washington Horacio. Me ha gustado mucho tu articulo.</p>
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		<title>By: marco giacinto</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/comment-page-1/#comment-13461</link>
		<dc:creator>marco giacinto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=9571#comment-13461</guid>
		<description>Terry is quite right. Your article may induce confusion, as it did the propaganda about hydrogen, the first element, which again is NOT a new fuel but a storage of energy generated by power plants. So I cannot understand how cloud lithium save alla the barrels of oil as maintained by the author.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry is quite right. Your article may induce confusion, as it did the propaganda about hydrogen, the first element, which again is NOT a new fuel but a storage of energy generated by power plants. So I cannot understand how cloud lithium save alla the barrels of oil as maintained by the author.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/comment-page-1/#comment-12855</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=9571#comment-12855</guid>
		<description>The article refers to batteries as re-newable energy sources, this is not true, they are energy storage devices, the energy itself must still be generated elsewhere, usually by burning fossil fuels at a power station. Now if every battery powered car came with a solar panel and/or windmill for the top of the garage.....!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article refers to batteries as re-newable energy sources, this is not true, they are energy storage devices, the energy itself must still be generated elsewhere, usually by burning fossil fuels at a power station. Now if every battery powered car came with a solar panel and/or windmill for the top of the garage&#8230;..!</p>
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		<title>By: F LITTLE</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/comment-page-1/#comment-12788</link>
		<dc:creator>F LITTLE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=9571#comment-12788</guid>
		<description>Our &quot;electric grid&quot; is not capable of handling electric cars right now if a majority of people buy them.
What we need are vehicles operating on natural gas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our &#8220;electric grid&#8221; is not capable of handling electric cars right now if a majority of people buy them.<br />
What we need are vehicles operating on natural gas.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert E. Edwards</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/comment-page-1/#comment-12367</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert E. Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=9571#comment-12367</guid>
		<description>I would appreciate any information you can give me regarding :
Blackhawk Expl. Inc Com BHWX</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would appreciate any information you can give me regarding :<br />
Blackhawk Expl. Inc Com BHWX</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B Kerr</title>
		<link>http://moneymorning.com/2009/10/21/lithium-battery-hybrid/comment-page-1/#comment-12296</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B Kerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moneymorning.com/?p=9571#comment-12296</guid>
		<description>I want to invest in the future for my progeny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to invest in the future for my progeny.</p>
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